358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen

As it stands, it is most certainly on the edge of becoming obsolete. Shortening the 2.85-inches long .375 H&H case wasnt exactly a revolutionary ideathat little-known .275 H&H so closely resembles the design of the half-century younger 7mm Remington Magnum that its uncannybut with the Winchester marketing machine the concept was brought to the forefront. Thanks for any thoughts. 35 Whelen. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. .50 Beowulf. However, Winchesters .338 Magnum proved to be the darling of not only those bound for the 49th state, but for those hunting elk and moose at lower latitudes. Kali Parmley of Gun Dog Magazine talks to George Thompson from Benelli USA about the new features from the Benelli line in 2023. The Norma factory load, with Normas own 250-grain bullet, performed poorly, coming apart in the chest cavity. What should the discerning collector look for in a potential buy? As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. of muzzle energy. How it would have done on a live animal is impossible to say. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. Moving down a notch and comparing the .35 Whelen (250 grain bullet at a MV of 2400 fps) to the .30-06 (220 grains at 2410 fps), which have nearly identical case capacity, we find that the optimum game range (OGW) on 1000 pound animals is 10 yards for the .30-06 and 100 yards for the .35 Whelen. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. I see no reason to shy away from it. The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. Size aside, American elk are very tough creatures. Of the three, only the .358 Norma has not become a standard chambering. It is capable of driving a. I am often criticized for following the Elmer Keith school in suggesting powerful cartridges. Back in the late 70's I picked up a custom 1903 in 358 Norma Mag, awesome rifle, very accurate and it put a thump on deer, I bought it hopping to get a moose tag back in MN, never did and sold the rifle. of muzzle energy. This is a particularly apt comparison because the re-introduced .350 is available in the Remington Model Seven rifle, which is also offered in .300 short magnum calibers. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. Real world, the Norma bitchslaps brown bears and moose as convincingly as the 375H&H. The .350 Remington Magnum is the only cartridge that appears on both lists of current and obsolete calibers. Compare the .308 Winchester and the .358 Winchester, which are based on the same case, and the .358 wins hands down. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Re: 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Had the .358 Norma Magnum been chambered in an American rifle, or at least promoted by an American company, the popularity of the cartridge may have been much greater than it is. This raises the obvious question: Why, with so many modern cartridges around of more or less equal power, chambered in readily available rifles, is there this lingering interest in, and loyalty to, the .358 Norma? Here in North America big game starts with deer. Among my own favorites for the .358 Norma are the Nosler Partitions in both 225 and 250 grains, Swift A-Frames (225, 250, 280) and various Woodleighs, including the unique 310-grain Weldcore. 358 norma mag is a rarer bird but as I understand fire forming 300 win mag brass an easy way to feed it. The Whelen is a more sensible choice, but the Rigby isnt about sensibility, its about nostalgia and a connection to a bygone age. Powders such as IMRs Trail Boss, Accurates 5744 and IMRs discontinued SR-4759 all work with lighter bullets, and sometimes accuracy is very good, even if the gas seal is not. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING magazine, Kevin Steele is at the Steiner Optics booth with Alberto Corbetta to discuss the Predator 4 and Predator 8. was simply a .308 Win. Unlike either the .338 or .375, the .35 (.358-inch) has been a standard American caliber since 1900. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. Coming from me, this conclusion may shock you, so let me give you another surprise. I've owned several Magnum Mediums338 RUM, 340WBY, 375 H&H, 375 WBY, 358NM, 338WM. Trust me, you could do worse, but youll be hard-pressed to do better! Hunting Shack 358NORMA2N Game King 358 Norma 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. but it does have the 22" barrel and the irons , looks and feels like a MTN rifle to me. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Mag. The .358 Norma Mag. So are the .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. The big issue with the .350 Rigby Magnum is the lack of available ammunition. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). Petersen's HUNTING Publisher, Kevin Steele is in the CZ booth with Dylan Rice at SHOT Show to talk about CZ 600 Series Trail rifle. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. I have become a 35 cal. All Rights Reserved. Faster 6.5sthe new 6.5 PRC, the old .264, or the super-fast .26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherbywill deliver more energy and open the range envelope a bit. But perhaps youre not after thick-skinned dangerous game. It will kill farther than that, of course, but that is its optimum range. Mag. I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. Have all three, and have not shot any of em My medium is a 9,3x62. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. Now, I have to go out on a limb and say that sensible elk cartridges aren't all about power. Cartridges of .25 caliber and below are not ideal elk cartridges, especially if a big bull is a potential. What keeps it alive? Out of stock View Details . In the entry on the .358 Norma, it maintains that, had Norma convinced a major American riflemaker to offer the chambering in the early years, it could have become one of the greats. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. On June 26, 1959, Sweden's Ingemar Johansson demolished Floyd Patterson in the third round of their first heavyweight title fight in New York. No, its not exactly easy on the shoulder, but its not terrible either. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. Maybe it's a regular BDL? Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. As well, most bullet manufacturers produce soft, 200-grain roundnosed bullets intended for the .35 Remington, and these fit a wide range of uses. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Essentially a .338 Magnum with a bigger mouth, the .358 Norma can push 250-grain bullets faster. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. To reach the .300 mark, youd need a 270-grain bullet (the North Fork and Woodleigh bullets come immediately to mind), but stabilization becomes an issue in the slower twists, and thats long been a problem in .35-caliber barrels. I had the privilege of spending some time with a 1917 vintage take-down Rigby-Mauser rifle while on a hunt in Scotland, and the words sweet shooting came quickly to mind. As it turned out, having a great punch was not enough for either one. The full spectrum of our many 7mms, from 7mm-08 and 7x57 on up to the fastest 7mm magnums, are also fine, but they are not magical giant-slayers. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. The .358 Norma can be loaded down to duplicate the performance of either of the two smaller cartridges. Sure, you can get away with it, especially with todays extra-heavy bullets, but I think its foolish. Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. While I generally prefer the former over the latter, I think that both choices are effective. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. Give a Gift Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. And with modern powders and loads, it knocks on the door of the .300 WSM and .300 Winchester Magnum. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. They are a little short initially and after two firings they were just fine. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. Since then, I have often recommended medium bores, such as Elmer Keiths favorite .33s, and Ive used the 8mm Remington Magnum a lot. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Released in 1908, the .350 Rigby Magnum is an entirely original design, with no parent cartridge. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. The 250-grain .358-inch bulletwith a sectional density of 0.279if properly constructed, has enough length to handle the brown bear and bison, and all of the African plains game species, plus lion and leopard. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. It has never failed me. You get the shot you get, and within sensible limits, you must be able to take the shot offered. If the .350 Rigby Magnum was effective in the golden era of safari, modern premium bullet designs will make it even better. the problem in this debate is we are crossing over in calibres, which means thrust on different sized pistons. We argue cartridges and calibers endlessly, but bullet choice matters. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. You know the kind with the locking bolt. a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. Not so the .358 Norma. There are several reasons. Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." For the next year, comparisons were inevitable between Johanssons Hammer of Thor and the .358s powerful 250-grain bullet. The .270 WSM and .270 Weatherby deliver more energy, but all three are fine. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. The first time I ever hunted with a .358 Norma Magnum, it was a custom rifle built on a Mauser Mark X action. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. A medium variable in the 3-9X or 2.5-10X range should be enough scope for elk hunting. From left: (1) .35 Remington, (2) .358 Winchester and (3) .358 Norma Magnum. to achieve its potential. Perhaps thats why it has survived. i have a 35 whelen and love it. And the hunter must have full confidence in his or her choice. Both calibers share the same dimensions of the case head as the .300 H&H Magnum, but have far less body taper, resulting in the same internal capacity in a shorter case. Short of a wounded elephant or Cape buffalo in thick cover, there is no game I can think of for which you could not concoct a load in the .358. First, it will do everything the .338 will, and a bit more. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. Its a flat shootermimicking the trajectory of a .30-06 with heavier bulletsand is fully capable as an all-around choice. Maybe I'll just get a 375 H+H instead of going the Norma route. Energy figures have it knocking at the door of 375H&H. So we see that even with a one pound lighter rifle, the .358 recoils slightly less than a .300 magnum. Also, after a few dozen elk hunts, Ive seen many taken effectively with lighter cartridges. Here the elk offers hunters an advantage because the vital zone, like body size, is at least twice that of any deer. Campfire 'Bwana. Equal in importance is that you can hit the elk. I don't hunt Kodiac island nor elephants so utilizing the 06 case to build an elk rifle, lower 48 grizzly country rifle works for me. Customer experience was, and still is, the primary focus, a key to the firms longevity and success. The original Schultz & Larsens were sold without iron sights, and they were installed on my rifle afterward. The better ones create mild gallery or small-game loads that are economical, quiet, virtually without recoil and best of all a lot of fun to shoot. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. The .35 Whelen has a relatively simple design: it's a .30-06 Springfield case necked up to use .358 instead of .308 bullets (the exact opposite of the .270 Winchester in other words). Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. Quite honestly, the .350 Rigby isnt a cartridge Id describe as practical, but if you are looking for something quite left of center, this may be for you. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. Although such weight is rare, a big bull can exceed 1,000 pounds. Nils Kvaleone of the chief designers at Normahad experimented with a shortened .300 H&H case, necked to hold 8mm bullets, with the rim turned down to match the 8x57 rim diameter. Sometimes you get a point-blank shot; other times you need to stretch it a bit farther. In cartridges, as in boxing, what goes on behind the scenes often determines the outcome. I did secure properly head stamped Norma cases thinking we'd need them going over into the Yukon (no one ever checked). Also as I have a lot of 357 pistol bullets I was figuring on being able to use them as reduced loads/smaller game options in either big 35 cal should I go that route. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. A cross-section of loads for the .358 Norma Magnum include the (1) Sierra 125-grain JHP, (2) Sierra 170 FMJ, (3) Speer 180, (4) 200-grain cast bullet and a (5) Sierra 200 roundnose. In both cartridges, versatility is limited more by the narrow range of bullets available than by any other factor. Introducing the Veracity PH from Burris, the perfect combination of reliability, quality, and technology delivering a simple aiming solutiona tool for the hunter that just works. The parent of this cartridge is the .30-06 Springfield, which is necked-up to accept a bullet diameter of .358 in (9.1 mm).This cartridge is more powerful than its parent, especially in killing power on large game. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. Blocker Outdoors Finisher gloves, headcovers and other accessories are available in Mossy Oak Bottomland and Mossy Oak Obsession NWTF camouflage patterns to match various turkey hunting terrain. Any listing you find for H-4895 can be modified by loading only 60 percent of the published minimum to create some very comfortable loads. And for the larger antelope species, like any of the eland, wildebeest, zebra and roan, the .350 Rigby Magnum is a sound choice. That does not mean that any gunsmith who had his own ideas about velocity and accuracy might not include it or go completely the other way. and the 6.5 mm Rem. With such a wide range of both cast and jacketed bullets available, and todays variety in powders, the .358 Norma has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to load possibilities. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. 10 GA. The rifle, cartridge, and bullet must be capable of handling that one opportunity. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. Between the .25s and the .35s are dozens of cartridges that are versatile and suitable. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. The cartridge predates the more famous .416 by three years, and the .350 Rigby was the first to feature the sharp 45-degree shoulder which is the hallmark of the Rigby designs. From there, you can work up until you find a load that gives you the accuracy and velocity you want. lbs. G. Joined: Sep 2009. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. and the .32 Win. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. I shot my first bull elk in Montanas Pioneer Mountains on a snowy Thanksgiving in 1972. I think it would be cheeper to get another action or a magnum bolt. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. For the one perfect all-around elk rifle, Im not sure you can beat the good old .30-06. An elk offers a large target, so extreme magnification shouldnt be necessary. Food for thought, is it not? For anyone with an experimental or fanciful turn of mind, the .358 Norma and the many .358-inch diameter bullets are a gold mine. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? The rivalry between the .338-inch and .358-inch bore diameters has a considerable history; both topped out at 300 grains (at one point in time in history), and both have a lower end of 180 grains. The .350 Rigby Magnum is, in the words of veteran Professional Hunter Robin Hurt, a perfect caliber to hunt lion and leopard. With a few exceptions, most African countries require a minimum of .375-caliber cartridges for thick-skinned dangerous game like Cape buffalo and elephant, and that makes sense in most instances. Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. Far more alternatives, in fact, than exist in several more popular caliber families. An earlier Western Cartridge load delivered 2,660 fps, which I suspect is closer to the truth. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. I believe in quality optics, but quality and magnification are not synonymous. Many western hunters annually take elk with 6mms and .25s. figure of 0.300 is desirable, and comparing similar cartridges, youll see the .350 Rigby comes in a bit behind the other popular choices of the day. Elk hunting can be extremely physicalnot only steep country, but also altitude and sometimes deep snow to buck. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. To return to our boxing analogy, the .358 Norma Magnum not only has the Hammer of Thor, but it also offers an excellent jab, a good hook, a wicked uppercut and a variety of feints. I'm sending my 270 tikka off to JES rebore to get it punched out to 35 whelen. The .35 Whelen fires a larger .358 bullet and is therefore right at the cusp of being a big game caliber and is capable of handling everything except . Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. and .32 Rem. plowed fresh ground. Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. On those gray, moody November days when I am feeling blue I take my Remington Model 141 pump-action rifle in .35 Rem. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries.