kerdi membrane over cement board

That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. It only takes a minute to sign up. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. You peeled it off? x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. Will add it in. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? In . However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. The site is called floorelf.com. Caulk the gap. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. We want that inside corner able to move. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Maybe try another brand of thinset? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Why is this the case? The mortar does . Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. x 96 in. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Why you use cement board? This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. DensShield is one common brand. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. Any recommendations? The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Installation. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. I also used the Kerdi drain. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? Thanks Paul! We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Will use the Schluter Shower system. There are numerous ways to do this. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. You are wise to use a cement board. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Some being easier to work with than others. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Personally, I like standard drywall. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. Hang the cement boar. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Your email address will not be published. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. I still wet the walls first. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. #3 This is a DIY site. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years.

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